Written by the reviewer from the ASR + docket; [verbatim-ASR] = quoted machine transcript; [paraphrase] = reviewer's wording, not a quote.
0:00 All right, we'll call the community of the whole to order. I will first move to
0:07 approve the minutes of the February 23rd meeting without the necessity of a
0:10 reading. Motion has been made and seconded. Discussion? Hearing none. All
0:15 those in favor? Aye. And that motion passes. All right, so first up we have
0:21 communication for me regarding the Public Art Master Plan and I see that
0:26 we have Amanda Kramer here so thank you for joining us and Director
0:29 Barrington. I will kick it over to you guys.
0:35 Everybody thank you for having me here tonight to give you a little update on
0:39 our Public Art Master Plan. We've been working with the Cuyahoga County
0:44 Planning Commission since the summer on this project. We entered into their
0:47 community services, community planning services program for grant for this so
0:54 we were able to get that started in the summer. They actually were able to
0:57 set the table at the Lakewood Arts Festival. Our internal group that's been meeting on
1:03 this is myself, a couple members from our Public Art Advisory Board, Councilman
1:11 Evans has has been engaged. The schools have been around chamber, they go to
1:16 live, and Nick from Public Works has been attending as well trying to keep
1:22 me in a tight. Our timeline has been is pretty accurate to this point. They
1:32 started with current conditions really trying to understand where we were,
1:36 where we as they studied a lot of our existing demographics, where we
1:41 had issues with accessibility or equity and just really trying to get a
1:47 good grasp of where we were. We had or concurrently going through the
1:51 implementation and the vision and recommendations right now. So they
1:54 started the vision and recommendations in October and they're just finishing
1:58 that up now and at the same time we're going through the implementation.
2:01 Implementation is essentially giving us the tools to make those things
2:06 happen. So funding strategies, partners that we should tap into that we've
2:11 not tapped into before, things along those lines, and then we are looking
2:14 for the final plan rollout in late spring this year.
2:21 As I mentioned we have had some engagement since the beginning. We have
2:25 this steering committee that we've been working. The county also met with
2:29 individual stakeholders and I'll show you the list of stakeholders here
2:32 shortly but a good group and then we had a community survey with 800
2:37 responses. We you can see in the picture here we did an engagement at
2:41 the high school which was daunting for me but actually really nice and
2:46 really well received. Then we have another one coming up at St. Ed's that
2:51 we're going to be going to do the same thing so that one should be pretty
2:53 interesting because it's a lot of kids that don't live here. So I'm interested
2:56 to see their perspective as visitors and then we were also discussing
3:02 doing a senior engagement with BART communities or at Cove just to try
3:06 to touch those populations that aren't always accounted for or can't
3:10 always make a public meeting. Then we will do the standard public meeting
3:13 that everybody's invited to. I believe that they're also going to do an
3:18 artist roundtable with artists that I wasn't able to get to come to our
3:21 meetings just to see how they felt about our processes, how things have
3:26 worked for them, how successful, or you know where they see
3:34 So the input from the steering committee was first and
3:38 foremost just really wanting to get a more diversified public art program.
3:45 We do great with murals. Murals are great, but they wanted to see a little bit of a
3:49 difference with sculptural art, functional art, temporary opportunities.
3:54 We'd love to have traveling art come here, but we don't really
3:58 have a standard of how we would allow that. So those
4:04 were the input from there. The public art locations, they like it on
4:10 the main corridors. There was an interest in seeing it in some more
4:13 residential areas, maybe like how we can have an art tour of everybody
4:18 who's painted their garage and made it an artistic piece. The installation of
4:23 public art has generally been pretty successful, but we
4:28 do have some issues with the vinyl. It doesn't stay on very
4:32 well. It's expensive, and we're paying a fabricator, not an artist, which is
4:37 challenging. But it's safer for the brick, but then we can't paint on the
4:41 brick, so this was kind of some of those things that we wanted to hash out and
4:44 figure out. As I discussed before, we wanted to talk compensation with the
4:48 artists and make sure there was a standard. Right now, I do my best
4:53 research and come up with some numbers and see how many people apply,
4:58 and if a lot of people apply, then it seems like we're doing pretty good.
5:00 But we want to make sure that it's competitive, but reasonable and
5:04 practical within our budget. For maintenance and removal, we also wanted
5:09 to consider some of, you know, we don't have a lifespan on all of our art.
5:14 We want to know when our art should start to be cycled out, when it is
5:17 at the end of its life, and we want to be proactive with it instead
5:21 of clamoring to get some maintenance in there. So we don't have a
5:25 maintenance plan in place for much of our public art right now,
5:28 but we want to make it a line item in our budget, so that is
5:31 something that is consistent and addressed every year. This is a group
5:37 of people that, of organizations that met with the county, local community
5:43 institutions, public library, YMCA by Lakewood, et cetera, and then also
5:47 some more regional organizations in the arts, but also just providers.
5:56 This group had a pretty similar amount of feedback. There was, you know,
6:00 the opportunity for different forms of art, different themes and purposes.
6:04 They did see a good opportunity to consider our accessibility and equity.
6:10 You don't really think that a mural is challenging for people to see,
6:14 but until you think about people who are vision impaired or, you know,
6:18 they can't reach something, you know, there's just different obstacles
6:23 that we came across while going through this process that was really interesting.
6:29 Through our community survey, we did get 800 responses.
6:32 Over 90% of respondents felt good or very good about public art in Lakewood,
6:36 so it is a popular program. The favorites are shown here,
6:42 so a nice mix of some of those were installed on,
6:46 the sailboat one is installed on the aluminum panels.
6:48 There's the 3D sculpture, and then we do have a vinyl hand painted, et cetera.
6:55 I'm not going to go too far into the community survey feedback,
6:58 but again, very favorable, but people generally want to see them
7:02 in our commercial corridors, parks, public spaces.
7:05 Murals are challenging, but people love them, so there has definitely,
7:10 that is what I get asked about most frequently without a doubt,
7:13 is where can I put my mural or can I put a mural on my building?
7:17 So that is a big one, but there was also infrastructure
7:20 like our traffic signal boxes and sculptures.
7:23 The themes, nature, community diversity, pretty Lakewood-centric ideas.
7:30 The one thing that I thought was really interesting in this one
7:33 was showing how much people actually, this is Lakewood,
7:36 everybody wants to be engaged here, and you can see that in this.
7:39 The volunteering was the most popular form of support for these people,
7:43 so a lot of people can't go out there and donate or go to a class,
7:47 but they want to be a part of the art installation.
7:49 They want to help prep a wall for a mural or whatever the case may be,
7:53 so while it's not financial support, we have community support in that way.
7:59 I'm only going to show you two maps, there are many more.
8:03 This is an existing public art map, so I, along with Josh and the Public Works Department,
8:10 have our inventory map.
8:12 It is pretty up-to-date, this one is not,
8:14 because it was before all the traffic signal boxes were wrapped,
8:17 so there's about 42 spots missing on here,
8:21 but it is pretty much the same general details.
8:28 So this is a quarter mile walk shed from where there is any piece of public art,
8:34 so you can see that most of the corridors along Detroit-Madison
8:37 are within that quarter mile walk shed, so there's not really any surprises here.
8:44 The opportunity inventory shows a lot of opportunity in those same places,
8:49 and this wasn't surprising to me.
8:52 I think we talked a little bit about this in our committee meetings,
8:55 that we wanted to push back a little bit on some of these options
8:59 and maybe try to think a little bit outside of just the commercial corridor.
9:04 With some of our projects recently, we've really tried to lead
9:07 into the residential areas that have been really successful,
9:10 that people see while they're walking their dog up the street, so.
9:15 So just to give you an understanding of where we go with this,
9:19 we start with the vision and the guiding principles,
9:21 and then it gets more and more defined.
9:23 So with the vision, we go to the goals, and then strategies and action items.
9:28 I'm not going to read the vision, but you can see some of our bolded type here
9:33 is the inclusiveness, the accessibility,
9:36 creating innovation, placemaking, functionality, authentic.
9:40 That was really important.
9:41 We didn't want it to feel not native to Lakewood,
9:46 but it's a whole thing.
9:50 So those were the big important things that we were going through
9:53 with our guiding principles.
9:55 Another thing was the functionality.
9:57 We really like to kill two birds with one stone whenever we can around here,
10:01 and we see that a lot with the Asphalter that we did around Hayes,
10:05 which is beautifying a public space, but also sending an alarm to pedestrians, cars, etc.
10:12 So far, we have four goals that we're working through,
10:17 and then each one of them has specific recommendations for each of them.
10:20 And again, I'm not going to take up too much of your time
10:22 because I know you have a full agenda tonight,
10:24 but these are those goals,
10:25 continuing to work with what we have and have a diverse form of public art,
10:31 target areas, working to make sure we're embracing all aspects of equity
10:36 and making our processes more sustainable for the Public Art Advisory Board.
10:40 We have a group of volunteers who are very willing to do the work,
10:44 and I think that there are some opportunities for them to help me,
10:50 help us, help everybody to get a better understanding of what they're doing
10:54 and just really make this a fully engaged board.
11:01 Again, I'm not going to go through each of these individually.
11:03 These are the types of art that we were going to explore.
11:06 Commercial corridors, gateways were huge.
11:08 Parks, green space, residential options, community institutions.
11:14 Ensuring public art in Lakewood embraces all aspects of equity.
11:17 So again, this is a representation of not only the art but also the artists.
11:23 And then the fourth goal was making that sustaining process
11:27 and looking at altering funding strategies,
11:29 not just coming out of the capital budget,
11:32 planning a process of it all,
11:34 and engagement outreach and installation and maintenance.
11:37 So I breezed through that,
11:39 so feel free to make me dial back wherever you need me to.
11:46 Could you go back to the slide that had the types of art, please?
11:55 I think it was after that.
12:05 So could you talk a little bit about performance and temporary art?
12:11 I know you mentioned about the installation, or the traveling art.
12:15 So that would be more like a sculpture that goes from city to city,
12:19 that kind of thing, but then performance, are we talking ballet,
12:24 opera, interactive performance, all of the above?
12:29 Generally with our public art programs,
12:32 I've only said no to a few people,
12:35 but we are generally pretty receptive to almost anything.
12:40 But there's definitely been discussion about public art with ballet,
12:43 with bringing the Beck Center out into the street,
12:46 and having this huge institution that we have,
12:49 and why aren't they engaging in our street a little bit more
12:51 to bring that part of the institution out.
12:55 We're really open for anything, and the ballet,
12:58 the musical performances have been something
13:01 that's been a discussion a lot.
13:03 I will say the high school lagers were not interested in seeing ballet,
13:07 but, you know, you can take it how you want it.
13:10 I mean, there's many other forms of dance as well, so...
13:14 Just because I studied ballet doesn't mean it has to be ballet.
13:17 So I also wanted to ask about interactive art,
13:22 and you mentioned about the opportunities for volunteers,
13:27 and I think it was Friends of Inpit Park, maybe,
13:29 where they did a big mural project
13:32 where the community came and helped paint it,
13:34 which I thought was a really cool experience,
13:37 and I know you worked with the kids doing the crosswalks,
13:40 which is also a very cool experience.
13:41 So is that something also thought about
13:45 if we're potentially working with an educational artist
13:50 to work with the community?
13:52 Is that also part of this?
13:53 Yeah, so as you mentioned, the asphalt art,
13:56 we did have the kids go out there and do it,
13:58 and it was really interesting while we were out there,
14:01 and I showed some of them on my phone
14:03 just where the artists had been earlier that day,
14:05 earlier that week, and they were like,
14:06 oh, they do this for a job.
14:08 They thought it was really interesting,
14:09 so I think showing them that they could do this for a job,
14:12 showing them those kind of opportunities exist,
14:14 and then they took a lot of ownership of it afterwards.
14:16 They said, oh, my sister helped design this,
14:19 or that's my sister's little dragon that, you know,
14:21 so when they can see themselves in it,
14:23 there's so much more ownership of it.
14:25 It just is much more successful.
14:27 So that is a big component,
14:30 and I think we wanna find other ways
14:32 to incorporate those kinds of things more
14:34 into our everyday projects
14:36 because they're not always accessible
14:38 to that type of engagement,
14:39 but that's another reason that we were moving
14:41 more towards painted art and things like that
14:45 because when you have a vinyl that's printed off-site
14:48 and then installed, it's not a big process.
14:51 You know, it was really nice to see people.
14:54 Aaron Casey just did a mural
14:56 next to Magically Found.
14:58 It's the sunflower mural,
15:00 and he did it for free
15:01 because he just wanted to put his name out there,
15:03 and he got a lot of attention.
15:05 It was, that's kind of the performance art of it,
15:09 so we wanna see that as much as we can, too.
15:13 Thank you, and then I also wanted to ask about,
15:16 in terms of art in the parks,
15:19 you know, and I know we have
15:21 long-term capital planning looking at.
15:23 Some of us have talked about,
15:24 particularly with Bernice Pike Park,
15:25 of wanting to see some sort of artwork,
15:28 art path talking about
15:31 history of female leaders in the city
15:33 and the suffragette movement and all that sort of stuff,
15:34 and there's some money planned in the capital plan
15:37 for improving that park generally,
15:43 how this plan intersects
15:45 with larger capital long-term planning,
15:50 like with the parks,
15:52 how is that being considered as part,
15:55 is it being considered as part of this plan,
15:57 or how are those two things intersecting?
15:58 If that question makes sense.
15:59 Yeah, so one of the things I sort of breezed past
16:01 in the graphs shown was
16:04 asked if there should be a part for art,
16:06 essentially, with any new projects,
16:08 so like, for example, if it was in the past,
16:10 like the downtown development
16:11 would have a requirement for a public art component.
16:13 You know, the city of Cleveland does that.
16:17 You know, most of these bigger developments
16:18 are gonna do that anyway.
16:20 I talked with CASA last week about some of their plans,
16:22 so they're already in the works,
16:24 but making it a requirement
16:27 as opposed to a recommendation.
16:31 Every time we do a plan that I've been a part of,
16:34 there's been a demand for more public art.
16:36 When we did the Madison Park Master Plan,
16:37 everybody wanted to see more art in the park,
16:39 so it's definitely something that's at the forefront.
16:42 It's not, it is a part of this,
16:45 it is written all over this at this point
16:47 to have art in the park
16:50 and have that be a strategic part of those investments,
16:55 and again, killing two birds with one stone.
16:57 We need more lighting in this space,
16:58 so let's make it a lit seesaw like they have in Canada,
17:01 or let's make this a glow-in-the-dark bike lane,
17:04 which did give Nick a little bit of concern,
17:07 but he said, we'll figure it out.
17:11 Councilman, Vice President Baker.
17:14 Yeah, another cool, there's this,
17:15 I think it's called like glowstone,
17:17 and it's in Michigan, they use it in their parks,
17:19 and it's essentially like solar rocks
17:23 that are put into the asphalt mix
17:25 that like light up paths,
17:26 and they do it in Detroit,
17:28 in the Detroit metro region a lot,
17:29 and that's like kind of creativity meeting public works,
17:33 but just thought I'd say that,
17:34 because it drifted my mind.
17:36 The other thing is if you can go to the slide
17:37 about like locations or like opportunities,
17:41 I view this, and I am totally other side of the brain
17:45 than art, but I always appreciate it,
17:47 but I look at this as like
17:49 I were a billboard operator, a marketing person,
17:51 like how could I get our brand or name out there
17:55 as much as possible, vehicle counts,
17:57 pedestrian counts, traffic counts,
17:58 those types of things, and this follows that, right?
18:00 It's kind of like if you were Lamar
18:03 and you wanted to get a billboard up,
18:04 you'd look at these locations.
18:06 I would point you a little bit more
18:07 towards the excess lands around I-90,
18:10 so the city, it's taken a while,
18:14 Director Biden, but we'll get there.
18:17 It's like four acres, I think, total,
18:19 and there are no areas of higher vehicle counts
18:22 than off of I-90, so I see those more
18:26 as like gateway opportunities
18:28 and maybe illuminated signage or something to that extent,
18:30 but same with the front of Winterhurst,
18:32 which I think is on here,
18:34 but if you go further down marginal on Lakewood Heights,
18:37 there's another little green space there,
18:39 and then you get off of McKinley,
18:41 so there's just opportunities,
18:42 and I, no offense to Parma, I love Parma,
18:46 but rarely are they out in front of us,
18:47 but like when you get off 176 onto whatever,
18:50 they at least painted the fence,
18:52 looks nicer than just the fence, right,
18:53 so it provides a gateway element,
18:55 and those are things I think we can do.
18:56 We just have cedar fences.
18:59 We can engage people a little bit more
19:00 when they drive into Lakewood
19:01 and let them know they're coming here,
19:03 whether that's like big letters or something,
19:05 I'm not that person, I'm the person
19:07 that can identify real estate, where we can put it,
19:09 so I think we should think about those areas
19:11 because we will fully own them soon,
19:14 and there will be opportunities for us
19:15 to do these things.
19:16 I would just ask that you consider that.
19:22 Yes, thank you, Chair.
19:24 To my colleague, I think there is actually
19:26 a dot missing on here,
19:27 because we did talk about that entire gateway,
19:30 that Hilliard, given the impending
19:34 potential replacement of that bridge
19:35 and Riverside Drive, there'll be opportunity,
19:38 and that's also an area
19:39 where public art can be functional,
19:41 making that a lot safer for getting folks
19:43 across that pretty dangerous little part
19:46 to the northern part of Lakewood,
19:48 where you live, Councilman,
19:49 so it's definitely something we talked.
19:54 But I just wanted to say,
19:55 this is a great overview,
19:56 but when the entire report is available,
20:00 I encourage everybody to take a look at it,
20:02 because there's a lot more information
20:03 than this in there.
20:04 The process was very thorough.
20:07 As Planner has said,
20:11 that I was involved,
20:12 so I had the opportunity to do that,
20:15 so I saw firsthand all the great work,
20:17 so thank the team at planning
20:19 and our partners at Cuyahoga County.
20:22 I think this is a great document,
20:24 and it's gonna be really helpful to us as a city,
20:27 and also, we're to the point
20:30 where we need to attract public artists
20:32 and have them be looking forward to work here,
20:35 and they wanna do that in a place that has a plan
20:37 and is intentional about the things they're doing.
20:39 That's more attractive a lot of times
20:41 than just some random one-off thing,
20:43 because that makes sure that that person
20:46 knows what they're getting into dealing with us,
20:48 so it's really important.
20:49 This has been in the works for a long time,
20:51 Public Art Master Plan.
20:53 We've been talking about it
20:53 since before Public Art Advisory Board
20:55 was even put into place,
20:57 so thanks everybody for their hard work on it.
21:02 Council Member Bixenstein.
21:03 Thank you, Madam President.
21:05 I wanna echo Council Member Evans' sentiments.
21:08 I really appreciate everybody's efforts to this end,
21:11 and even just this presentation,
21:14 all the visuals being reminded,
21:17 oh yeah, I forgot about that particular mural.
21:19 It goes to show the depth of public art
21:24 and clearly we have a plan in place for more.
21:27 I was just curious, I know it's early,
21:29 but Birds of Birdtown,
21:32 has the initial response been
21:36 about what you expected?
21:37 Has it been really strong?
21:39 It's been stronger than I expected,
21:41 to be totally honest.
21:43 I thought that was gonna be a bit of a niche project
21:47 that would only attract a few artists,
21:49 and the way these work is that
21:51 I get a couple of stragglers at the beginning,
21:54 and then at my deadline at noon,
21:57 I get 20 emails at 11.30,
22:00 or between 11.30 and noon,
22:02 so I've already gotten several,
22:04 so I expect a bunch more to come in.
22:09 Councilman, Council Member Stupig.
22:13 Thank you for this report.
22:14 I really appreciate this.
22:15 This is something that
22:18 the Lakewood Youth Council has been talking about.
22:20 They are very interested in a battle of the bands
22:23 for high school students.
22:25 I have to connect you with Aira
22:28 from the mental health committee specifically,
22:31 and I don't wanna lose that point
22:34 that art is important for mental health,
22:37 not only for the spectators of it,
22:40 but also for the participants,
22:42 and I love that you also pointed out
22:44 that people in Lakewood are ready to volunteer
22:48 and I think that that aspect
22:49 of actually creating the art,
22:51 and we see that when we get cool snowfalls
22:53 where you can make snowmen,
22:54 and all of a sudden, poof,
22:55 we have all these snowmen and women, snow families,
22:59 popping up across the city,
23:01 because people enjoy creating that,
23:03 and then it's cool to watch it melt in that whole piece,
23:06 and I also wanted to, along that very same line,
23:11 the removal of this art hadn't crossed my mind,
23:13 but I appreciate that, too,
23:15 because sometimes you see some of those things,
23:19 yeah, that doesn't look so good anymore,
23:21 so I appreciate that you have a timeline
23:22 and a focus on that.
23:23 Thank you very much.
23:27 Council Member Hamilton-Steiner.
23:29 Thank you, President Keppel.
23:31 Thank you so much for presenting this,
23:32 and I am so glad that we, as a community,
23:36 and as a city government,
23:37 are investing in public art.
23:40 Public investment in arts is so important,
23:42 and especially when our federal government
23:45 is eliminating funding for art,
23:48 and I think there's an opportunity
23:52 that we can set that standard
23:55 and say no, art is very important.
23:58 It's important for our mental health
24:00 as Councilwoman Strubig has mentioned,
24:04 and it's just important for all of us in the community,
24:09 and I think that there's also an opportunity
24:13 to involve young people.
24:15 My daughter is at Hays,
24:17 and that project that happened over there
24:19 with the curb upvotes was just an awesome experience
24:23 for an entire class to participate in that,
24:27 and I think if we can have more involvement
24:30 of our young people into the arts,
24:33 because they're naturally intuitive
24:35 and naturally artistic,
24:37 I think that there's a lot of opportunity,
24:39 and there's even a lot of opportunity to teach art
24:44 and to teach the business side of art as well,
24:48 and how you can make a living doing what you love
24:53 and doing your passion,
24:54 and maybe if more people actually did their passion
24:57 and what they loved, we'd have a lot more happier people.
24:59 Let's encourage people to do their passion
25:03 and live their passion,
25:03 and if art is their passion,
25:05 let's say you can do this,
25:07 and here's how you can do it.
25:13 Councilmember Boynton.
25:16 Thanks, Madam Chair.
25:18 Amanda, Director Byneton, and Mayor,
25:20 thanks for your work on this.
25:22 It's gotta be probably the biggest impact
25:24 for the smallest cost investment that we've got around.
25:29 It's real flowering around the community,
25:31 literally, because you see all this color,
25:34 but our consistent effort
25:36 has really been a wonderful thing to see,
25:38 and I think I'm hearing unanimous support for more.
25:42 To me, now we're in the growth mindset mode
25:46 where we gotta challenge ourselves
25:47 to do more in a different,
25:48 and I'm glad that is in the plan,
25:50 especially on the different media,
25:53 growing beyond murals.
25:55 I love how you are trying to push art
25:57 into the neighborhoods as much as possible.
26:00 Do you think there's opportunities for that
26:02 probably around this Councilwoman to my left or right,
26:06 her neighborhood near Roosevelt,
26:08 I will know if he's kind of in the,
26:11 so there's gotta be,
26:12 and Hayes, that Councilwoman Hamilton-Steiner just said,
26:15 there's some public spaces and approaches there
26:18 that are great as well,
26:20 so that it's something that we discover
26:24 as we walk and bike around the town
26:27 and visit friends and neighbors.
26:30 So one other, one question, one more comment.
26:33 I think I'd love us to see
26:35 if we push on the content a little bit
26:37 and support some risk in the actual what the art is.
26:42 There's a tendency for us to celebrate local.
26:45 So you go to a Cleveland art show,
26:46 there's a lot of steel bridges and steel yards
26:49 and sports teams and rock hall type stuff.
26:53 And that's all wonderful.
26:54 And we could do more.
26:57 And I think we've laid a nice baseline
26:59 of celebrating our community.
27:01 Birdtown, birds for Birdtown is a great theme.
27:06 Maybe the next pass on that is the historic,
27:09 the ethnic historic neighborhood,
27:10 an industrial pass to Birdtown, just as a for instance.
27:13 But maybe it's got nothing to do
27:15 with anything particular Lakewood.
27:18 It's just that some artists who's got a vision
27:21 who lives here or works for our community
27:25 does something unique.
27:27 And that's, I think the one example
27:28 of that's the Lakewood library sculpture
27:30 is an abstract piece.
27:31 It's a very nice piece.
27:33 It doesn't tie itself to anything local.
27:35 So I'll stop my artistic content comments there,
27:41 but so we should keep improving in my opinion.
27:47 Last question is who's got the curation function
27:51 so that where we could way find, we can inform,
27:54 we can celebrate a new piece or the first piece
27:57 or a classic piece on his 10th anniversary or something.
28:00 At one point we talked about maybe the Beck Center
28:03 I don't know if we've got a coherent index,
28:07 but that's a whole function
28:08 that we could potentially grow into.
28:11 And then that also invites the point
28:14 I think you're implying here,
28:15 which is some art pieces may come down someday
28:19 or do we envision all of them
28:20 to last for a hundred years each?
28:24 And if not, how do we make that schedule
28:27 and those decisions?
28:27 I don't know, but that may be an aspect of the plan.
28:32 So what I mean by that is a curation,
28:34 literally I just went to the art museum
28:36 on the East side yesterday with my kids.
28:39 How do they rotate from their collection
28:43 into their galleries?
28:45 Those kinds of decisions,
28:47 we may be approaching the stage of maturity
28:51 for our public art program
28:52 where we could start to think about those things.
28:55 So any quick answers on that in your back pocket
28:59 I do have some answers for you actually.
29:03 I think the programming is a really important push
29:06 that we've talked about in our group,
29:09 almost making it like a ribbon cutting sort of a thing.
29:11 Do we have this great art?
29:13 What do we do to roll it out?
29:15 That kind of a process,
29:16 I think those wins should be celebrated.
29:19 And we've talked about having various types
29:22 of art walks and tours.
29:24 People are definitely interested in that.
29:26 I am the public art department.
29:28 So I think part of this plan was a really,
29:32 a strong path forward for me
29:36 to make those things happen that are doable internally
29:40 or seeing where we can outsource things
29:43 and being strategic about that outsourcing.
29:45 If we're going to make this investment,
29:47 we have this plan that shows that it's worthy of it.
29:50 And that was a big deal with our plan as well.
29:53 Regarding the end of life with some of our art,
29:57 I would love to see,
29:59 we're taking this mural down,
30:00 who wants a piece of it kind of a thing.
30:02 And it's just, you can take home this piece
30:05 or we can give it back to the artist.
30:06 They can do what they please with it.
30:08 So we have thought about that.
30:11 We've thought about many, many things.
30:14 It's a very all up in the place kind of a committee,
30:17 but the county's doing a nice job
30:19 of putting all of our thoughts into a well-schooled plan.
30:27 And I think just kind of piggybacking
30:29 on Councilman Bullock's question,
30:30 I had noted on the walking map
30:34 and I just pulled up on the website
30:37 and there is a nice clickable walking map
30:39 so people can click on and see who the artist is
30:41 and that sort of thing.
30:42 But if part of the plan is also
30:44 like we're talking about doing the art walks
30:47 about potentially engaging,
30:49 whether it's the public art advisory board
30:51 or other groups to sort of be docents at times
30:55 or there could be more content about
31:00 not just who the artist is
31:01 but why this piece was created and that sort of thing.
31:04 And I'm not asking you to personally do all that
31:08 but that is something that I could see community members
31:12 engaging with as well.
31:14 We have the community journalism program as well
31:17 through the land and folks with the observer
31:20 so there could be opportunities
31:21 to highlight art that well way as well.
31:25 Council members, any other questions or comments?
31:32 Well, thank you for the presentation
31:35 and for the work on this.
31:37 You know, as a undergrad art major,
31:40 I appreciate it personally and love seeing it around town
31:43 so glad to see us have a cohesive plan.
31:48 Art is obviously subjective
31:49 and so it's good to have a plan
31:51 for how we maintain it and expand it
31:54 and you'd put the public dollars to good purpose.
31:59 Thank you for your time, everybody.
32:16 To clean up our docket,
32:20 I'll just move to receive and file the communication
32:25 regarding the public art master plan.
32:28 Motion's been made and seconded.
32:32 All those in favor?
32:33 And that motion passes.
32:36 So next, the rest of our time this evening,
32:39 we have for the charter view amendments.
32:45 So just to reiterate,
32:49 we had the charter view commission in 2024.
32:55 There were six general recommendations
32:57 that came out of that
32:58 and the communication that we did
32:59 that showed link to that report.
33:01 You can take a look at all that.
33:03 The, I thought tonight we would start
33:07 with some of the sort of low-hanging fruits of those.
33:12 Some of them are more complicated than others
33:15 and then decide which, if any, we want to,
33:21 the long-term goal is to get these out of committee,
33:24 back to full council.
33:26 If we're going to have any of them
33:27 on the ballot for November,
33:29 we would need to get them ideally out of committee
33:31 prior to August recess
33:34 because the deadline for the November election
33:38 would be the first week of September.
33:41 So we want to make sure we're not
33:43 right up against that deadline
33:44 when we come back from recess
33:46 and we want to have time for them
33:47 to go to the board of elections.
33:48 We'd also want to have time to help the public
33:53 understand any of the ones
33:54 that we are putting forward for their consideration.
33:58 So just talking about timeline,
33:59 I do not expect that we will be necessarily ready.
34:04 Maybe we will, but I don't expect we'll probably be ready
34:07 to take action on any of these tonight,
34:08 but we thought we could start the discussion.
34:12 So with that, I thought probably the,
34:17 one of the, maybe I might be wrong about this,
34:21 but one of the simpler ones to look at
34:24 is the one regarding the redlining.
34:30 Which is, 18, thank you, 18, 20, 26.
34:43 So this one is essentially currently
34:52 where the charter is written.
34:54 It's that the ordinances resolution
35:01 or section of an ordinance resolution
35:03 needs to be completely listed out, repealed,
35:07 and then the new part put in,
35:10 which can make legislation very lengthy
35:12 and challenging for folks to read.
35:16 And now that technology allows
35:19 for the practice of redlining
35:21 where we can essentially highlight
35:24 what's different, underline, strike through, et cetera,
35:27 can make it clear, particularly in my opinion
35:30 for members of the public,
35:31 when I remember coming as a member of the public
35:34 and reading the entire old version first
35:38 and being very much against what that was
35:41 and then realizing, oh, the next part says
35:43 that will all be repealed,
35:44 and I just wasted all my time reading that.
35:46 So that's the idea of this ordinance.
35:54 So, any council members have comments on this one?
36:00 Vice President Baker.
36:02 Yeah, I certainly agree that it's a good cleanup.
36:05 I think if it was just this one,
36:07 I don't know that I would send the Board of Elections
36:10 scrambling to come up with a ballot issue for it,
36:14 but I think as a package of ones that we're going with,
36:16 I think is, I would certainly support it.
36:20 Council Member Stebbitt.
36:21 Thank you, I've also fell victim to that trap
36:24 where I'm reading and I'm like,
36:25 no, that's not what we wanted,
36:27 that's exactly the opposite.
36:28 And then you keep reading and it,
36:29 oh, this is the repeal part.
36:32 So then I go back through and I cross everything out
36:34 and the same thing happened numerous times
36:37 when we were looking at the TNR with Lessoeb
36:40 when we're going through and I'm like,
36:41 no, no, no, no, that's the repeal part.
36:43 So, to make it a lot easier to review,
36:45 I think is a no-brainer for me, thank you.
36:49 There are council members, comments, thoughts?
36:54 Council Member Boyk.
36:55 This is, thank you, Madam Chair.
36:56 This is very technical and minor,
36:59 but are we being overly prescriptive
37:02 in how we say that redlining should happen?
37:05 You know, it's specifying how redlining,
37:08 I'm recalling in the old days,
37:09 there were prescriptive ways of providing public notice.
37:13 It was newspapers at first,
37:14 and then at one point it was even like
37:16 on a bulletin board from the AOL days,
37:19 and that got repealed.
37:20 So, now we try to find general language
37:24 that doesn't require something this specific.
37:28 Now, I guess that's really a question
37:30 for the attorneys in the room.
37:32 That method is universal enough to put in our charter,
37:38 then I agree with the spirit of it, certainly, thanks.
37:43 Vice President Baker.
37:44 Yeah, I mean, the profession,
37:46 perhaps some of the gentlemen in the back,
37:48 I wasn't there when WordPerfect was around,
37:50 or maybe Ernie, but generally speaking,
37:52 WordPerfect did the same thing that Microsoft Word does
37:55 and will do the same thing as Google does, right,
37:57 or whatever the word processing is.
37:59 So, to the point of how it's drafted,
38:01 I think it basically says it's like,
38:03 new stuff underlined, old stuff struck through.
38:05 And I think that's as old as legislative drafting
38:09 for the history of our country has been.
38:11 And so, I think that's pretty safe,
38:14 at least, I don't wanna speak for the law department, though.
38:18 Law department care to chime in.
38:20 You are correct, Councilman Baker.
38:22 It does say revisions or amendments
38:24 to an ordinance or resolution
38:25 shall be clearly indicated
38:27 by underlining any language inserted
38:29 and by striking through any language that is removed.
38:39 All right, any other council members?
38:44 Have opinions, thoughts on this one?
38:47 Yeah, I'm just happy to say,
38:48 I think it makes a lot of sense in support.
38:51 All right, let's carry on,
38:54 because I think the general consensus is
38:56 we could take a vote on this one
38:58 to refer it favorably out of committee
38:59 if we think that it is structurally ready for that.
39:03 I'm eyeing the law department
39:04 to see if they have any concerns
39:06 about what the language of,
39:08 how this is currently written.
39:12 But we might want to wait to do that
39:13 if we're, well, I guess we could go ahead and do it,
39:19 before we would actually pass it out of full council
39:21 and refer back to, refer it to the board of elections,
39:25 I think the general idea was
39:26 we wouldn't just send this one if we,
39:29 so we kinda wanna wait and see
39:31 if we are sending any of the other ones
39:32 before we would vote this one at full council,
39:36 was my understanding from how I was reading the room,
39:39 that we probably wouldn't just do this one,
39:42 the board of elections,
39:43 but we could go ahead and vote it out of committee
39:44 if we think it's ready.
39:52 I think getting it out of committee
39:54 might be helpful for record-keeping purposes
39:59 and then it can just be on the full council docket,
40:00 and then if there are more, can you like do that?
40:03 We could always defer it on the full council, so.
40:06 Okay, so I will move to recommend favorably
40:11 back to full council.
40:17 Motion's been made and seconded, any?
40:20 Council Member Hamilton-Steiner.
40:22 Thank you, President Keppel.
40:23 So out of a sheer abundance of caution
40:30 in order not to give an appearance of impropriety,
40:33 due to my prior service
40:35 on the Charter Review Commission two years ago,
40:38 I will be recusing myself
40:40 from participating in the dialogues
40:43 regarding the amendments, as well as from voting.
40:47 Thank you, Councilwoman.
40:50 All right, any further discussion on 18, 20, 26?
40:55 So we have a motion to defer favorably
40:57 back to full council.
40:58 All those in favor?
41:03 And that motion passes.
41:05 All right, so let's jump to the...
41:13 Ordinance 20, 20, 26.
41:15 This one is how the charter can be amended.
41:23 And as my recollection
41:24 from the Charter Review Commission's discussion,
41:27 presentation to us in the report was that,
41:30 essentially, it doesn't actually,
41:31 they're not looking to actually change how it's amended,
41:35 but just the language of how it's explained
41:37 how it can be amended was a little confusing.
41:42 amendments to this charter may be submitted,
41:44 or this is the current language,
41:45 amendments to this charter in section B may be,
41:49 in section B it says,
41:49 amendments to this charter may be submitted
41:50 to the registered voters of the city
41:52 by a two-thirds vote of all council members,
41:55 and, upon petition signed by 10%
41:58 of the registered voters of the city,
42:00 proposing an amendment shall be submitted
42:02 to the voters by council.
42:05 And so instead, that was a little confusing
42:08 because the intent is that,
42:12 law department, correct me if I'm wrong,
42:13 but I think the intent of that language
42:15 was that charter amendments could be,
42:20 essentially, could come from council
42:23 or they could come as recommended
42:25 from the charter review, or just by council,
42:28 or by petition of the voters.
42:31 So if the voters directly want to petition
42:35 for a charter amendment, they could do so.
42:37 But it's a little, the way that was worded,
42:39 the charter review commission felt was a little confusing.
42:42 So the redlined language says,
42:45 council may, by affirmative vote
42:47 of at least two-thirds of council members,
42:49 submit any proposed amendment to the charter
42:52 to the registered voters of the city for approval,
42:55 or, upon receipt of petition signed by not less
42:58 than 10% of the registered voters of the city,
43:00 setting forth any proposed amendment to the charter,
43:03 council shall submit such proposed amendment
43:05 to the registered voters of the city for approval.
43:12 so essentially the same process,
43:13 just making it hopefully clearer to voters
43:16 about how charter amendments could happen.
43:22 Happy to support that.
43:26 Any other comments, questions, concerns,
43:29 law department, any concerns
43:31 about how currently drafted?
43:34 All right, so with that,
43:36 I will move to refer favorably back to full council.
43:45 Motion's been made and seconded.
43:47 Any further discussion?
43:50 Hearing none, all those in favor?
43:54 And everyone else already voted yes,
43:56 so that motion passes.
43:58 Great, clean up the docket nicely tonight.
44:01 All right, so what is the next easiest one?
44:15 Oh, let's do 17, 20, 26.
44:17 So this is the one regarding council appointments.
44:23 So there was a lot of discussion.
44:26 You know, Committee of the Whole
44:27 met with the Charter View Commission
44:29 also prior to the recommendations
44:33 and talked about vacancies.
44:37 So in the report, there was a lot of conversation
44:42 and in the discussion of the Charter View Commission
44:45 about how vacancies on council are handled,
44:51 we had a lot of conversation amongst ourselves as well
44:54 of how while ideally we'd love for the voters
44:57 to decide every single time, that's not always practical.
45:07 sort of the ideas, the Charter View Commission
45:10 wanted to essentially codify,
45:14 I'll just say my understanding is the Charter View
45:15 Commission wanted to codify the current practice of,
45:20 since I've been on council and I think even before,
45:23 as long as I can, we've,
45:25 Lakewood City Council's practice has been to do
45:27 an open call for applicants, interview publicly
45:31 and then do an appointment.
45:32 Not all cities do that.
45:35 Famously, some of our neighbors will do
45:37 the last minute step down
45:39 so that they can appoint their successor.
45:43 And that's not what we want to achieve here.
45:45 And I think we all have the goal of trying to make it
45:47 as open and transparent as possible.
45:49 So this, the idea is to codify the practice
45:53 we've been doing of doing the open call for applicants
45:57 and doing public candidate interviews.
46:01 So that language is in section B.
46:09 Adding language, prior to making an appointment,
46:10 council shall first issue an open call
46:13 for all interested candidates to submit applications
46:16 and upon council's review of the applications
46:18 shall hold candidate interviews in public session.
46:20 There is a change here.
46:23 So if the vacancy occurs more than two years and 120 days
46:27 before the municipal primary election,
46:29 so this has changed to filing deadline.
46:32 And the reason for that is partly because
46:36 if there's another amendment
46:41 talking about ranked choice voting,
46:44 if we were to go with ranked choice voting,
46:46 it could potentially eliminate the primary.
46:49 And so rather than prior to the primary,
46:52 it would need to be before the filing deadline,
46:54 which would be dependent.
46:56 And regardless, even if it's before the,
47:02 so regardless, if we did a primary election,
47:07 so this would actually, the filing deadline
47:10 would be before what would have been the primary election.
47:14 So I'm happy to talk to any of that,
47:18 that part of it of the timing-wise,
47:21 but the, or any of the other elements.
47:25 That is what this one is about.
47:34 Can you, Council Member Bullock.
47:36 The part, let me just see if I understand
47:42 So first of all, I support the spirit of it,
47:43 and I think we've been doing it for,
47:47 because I've been around, or maybe the second year
47:50 since I was around.
47:52 Prior to making any appointment,
47:56 Councilor Schell first issued an open call,
47:58 that makes sense, and then upon Council's review
48:00 of application, Schell hold candidate interviews
48:03 Do you interpret Schell hold candidate interviews
48:05 to mean any candidate interviews
48:08 that Council decides to hold shall be done
48:11 in public session, or does it mean Council Schell
48:13 hold candidate interviews for all applicants received,
48:18 It's vague, and maybe artfully so,
48:22 or intentionally so.
48:24 I think I probably do lean towards having the charter
48:28 not be so prescriptive to the elected body
48:31 that there is no discretion reported,
48:35 but on the other hand,
48:38 you're just talking about holding interviews,
48:41 and I think the convener, the chair of the meeting,
48:48 would have some parliamentary discretion
48:50 to obstruct from the meeting for long or short interviews,
48:53 or et cetera, right?
48:54 I don't know what the intent was,
48:56 or what the reading is.
48:57 Well, I'll just say my intent
48:59 with introducing all these was just following,
49:02 trying to give the Charter Review Commission
49:04 put in their time to make recommendations
49:06 and ask us to look at these things,
49:08 and so I thought we should.
49:10 There's two different intents.
49:11 There could be what I think is one individual council member
49:14 and what the Charter Review Commission intended,
49:17 so for what they intended,
49:18 I would look at what their report says.
49:26 My recollection was...
49:27 Slightly different, at least in the second part
49:35 Madam Chair, it's okay, I mean, I'm not, thank you,
49:38 and I'm not asking us to reconstruct verbatim
49:42 their intent report.
49:43 I guess the point is I'm raising that question now
49:47 for our consideration, and I'd certainly welcome
49:50 any Charter Review Commission member
49:52 who would like to speak or shed light on that,
49:55 but to me, that's not a trivial point,
50:02 so I wanted to flag that.
50:04 May I suggest we ask the law department?
50:06 I think this would require a few things.
50:12 We issue an open call,
50:17 and then we hold interviews in the public.
50:19 I think those are the two things that this requires.
50:24 Could the law department clarify that point?
50:26 We could also table this one and come back to it
50:29 when we're having a fuller conversation
50:31 with Ranked Choice Voting,
50:32 because I think the second part there
50:35 regarding the date is connected to that one,
50:39 and so it may affect the language of this one
50:45 There's another, so that could be
50:46 a continued conversation between now and then.
50:49 I think that's a good point,
50:50 and I think that's a good point,
50:51 and I think that's a good point,
50:53 is another, so that could be a continued conversation
50:55 between now and the next time we convene.
50:59 I agree with you, Council President.
51:01 Let's keep that in committee.
51:03 If it depends on language from other proposals,
51:07 other proposed charter amendments,
51:09 we'll deal with them and be informed.
51:12 Okay, all right, so let's pause on that one,
51:17 and then we have the,
51:29 So this one came out of both the Charterview Commission
51:34 and the Civil Service Commission
51:39 had made recommendations to council regarding,
51:43 or they expressed concern through their individual bodies,
51:47 and then they also met together about
51:52 how often, both how often council
51:57 and mayoral salaries are amended.
52:01 There was a lot of discussion in the report,
52:06 both the Civil Service Commission's report
52:08 and the Charterview Commission's report
52:10 about the methodology and some recommendations
52:14 that came out of that,
52:15 and then since then we got further information
52:20 from the law department about one of the things
52:25 that Civil Service Commission had suggested
52:27 in terms of having a built-in process
52:30 for salary increases that that would not be practicable
52:34 with Ohio Ethics laws for various reasons,
52:38 but so then this is looking at more,
52:42 less than the amounts, but the timing.
52:46 So one of the things that came out
52:48 is that the way it's currently written,
52:54 the review, the charter calls for review
52:58 after the year of a presidential election,
53:01 which is an even year election,
53:03 municipal elections are an odd year elections,
53:06 and so then by the time they meet
53:09 and it goes through, then that elected official,
53:14 particularly, so like if that happens on the year
53:17 when it's the mayoral and the ward council members,
53:20 it might not go through,
53:21 wouldn't be actionable change
53:24 until another four-year term has passed.
53:27 So that was some of what was discussed
53:30 with this whole thing.
53:47 some of the other things of this too is the timing.
53:50 So because July of 1st,
53:56 the presidential election,
54:00 I'm sorry, I had this all written out
54:01 because the timing is very confusing,
54:03 but like if July 1st or if the Civil Service Commission
54:08 does the review in July of a presidential election,
54:13 they have to be, and then make a written report to council,
54:16 and then you have the amount of time
54:19 that for the readings of council to enact anything
54:22 or to let it pass with it within 90 days,
54:26 and now you're past the filing deadline potentially
54:30 for new candidates to know what the salary would be.
54:33 So hence the March 1st pushback.
54:38 So hence the March 1st pushing it back.
54:44 And then in the municipal election,
54:47 so that it would be prior to anyone choosing to file,
54:51 they would know what the upcoming salary
54:54 for the new term would be, is the idea.
55:02 Pause there for the council members' questions.
55:23 Chair, the charter review recommended
55:28 some similar language, but a little different.
55:34 And they recommended, I think,
55:35 deletion of the 10% thing.
55:39 We don't have that in what's proposed,
55:42 and I'm wondering the kind of distinction there.
55:46 So unless I get the charter review report,
55:53 talks, it deletes approved by the mayor,
55:57 however, no increase in salary under the section
55:59 shall exceed 10% for the salary
56:00 for the office of mayor or council,
56:02 unless there has been no increase in salary
56:04 for the preceding 10 years.
56:07 And then we keep that cap in what's, I think, on the docket,
56:14 but it changes at the proceeding eight years.
56:17 I'm just curious as to kind of,
56:19 I could see either or, right?
56:30 I think maybe because the terms are four years,
56:32 and I also looked at the Civil Service Commission's report.
56:36 Oh, so you're kind of blending
56:37 the Civil Service and the charter, okay, I get it, yeah.
56:40 Because some of the things
56:41 the Civil Service Commission asked,
56:43 they asked us to implement some change,
56:46 but then we couldn't do that,
56:48 and so trying to combine both recommendations
56:52 is the thought, to Director Shaw.
56:57 I was just gonna say I would recommend
56:59 that we keep this one in committee,
57:01 just to clarify that,
57:02 along with the others that we'll be reviewing.
57:06 That's what I was gonna say, you're a great lawyer.
57:12 All right, any other feedback, discussion?
57:18 Okay, so we'll keep that one in.
57:32 oh, redistricting, okay, so let's try that one.
57:37 So this one basically came out of looking at,
57:43 currently, I believe the charter does not,
57:49 they have any process for how,
57:54 doesn't require them to be looked at.
57:56 I think it just says that council sets them,
57:57 I could be wrong about that.
57:59 You're wrong about that.
58:02 So this sets a way for council to,
58:08 redistricting towards the city,
58:10 that hasn't happened for many years,
58:13 and sets a process,
58:18 to make them potentially looking at best practices
58:24 in terms of being contiguous, compact,
58:28 surrounded by natural boundaries or street lines,
58:30 and to try to essentially have as much as possible,
58:36 equal divisions of population within a certain level.
58:41 It also suggests using the planning commission
58:46 to help review and make,
58:49 if necessary, appropriate redivisions
58:50 of the city into four words.
58:52 And I think the idea there being,
59:01 we've seen it from the state level of elected officials
59:05 trying to choose their voters,
59:06 and trying to take it out of elected officials' hands
59:11 and into more neutral body
59:15 and having some sort of process.
59:16 So it's not necessarily that it's a huge problem here,
59:19 although Ward 4 currently is,
59:22 does have a significantly larger population
59:24 that would fall outside of these proposed best practices.
59:32 Yep, council member Streepin.
59:35 I am supportive of this in establishing a process
59:40 because there isn't one.
59:41 I would be careful to base it solely on population,
59:46 as we know, Ward 4 is having population
59:49 because of the Gold Coast,
59:50 which has their own communities there.
59:54 And I don't know that I've ever heard
59:58 councilperson Marks or councilperson O'Malley
1:00:03 I have so much more work than any of you
1:00:06 because those communities are communities within themselves
1:00:10 and I don't know that they'll be calling you
1:00:12 because their trash wasn't picked up
1:00:14 or because their parking lot wasn't plowed
1:00:20 because they are communities in and of themselves.
1:00:23 So I would just, while I appreciate
1:00:26 that we need a process in place,
1:00:28 I don't know that solely on population
1:00:32 is worth being the only criteria.
1:00:40 Yeah, and that's a good point, councilperson Streepin.
1:00:45 because I do think that there is some,
1:00:46 and this is where I'm like nostalgia, cultural history.
1:00:49 I do like the fact that all four wards have,
1:00:52 generally speaking, the lake with the closer yard
1:00:54 to the lake, nicer, you know, lake, right?
1:00:58 And then we literally have railroad tracks a little south
1:00:59 and then we go further towards 90.
1:01:02 I do like that the four wards are broken up
1:01:04 into like your neighbors in the north,
1:01:05 neighbors in the south and everyone in between.
1:01:09 I've talked to other Ward 4 council members
1:01:11 and, you know, technically on the polarities, right?
1:01:16 Ward 1 is the smallest population wise.
1:01:18 It's the biggest surface area wise, I believe.
1:01:21 There was a report a couple of years ago
1:01:22 that council president O'Malley had kind of put together
1:01:26 with some help from outside entity
1:01:28 to show that kind of disparity.
1:01:31 I think I probably get just as many calls
1:01:32 if not more than the Ward 4 person.
1:01:34 So it's, but that's not what we're doing here, right?
1:01:36 It's not about number of calls.
1:01:37 It's about number of residents and constituents.
1:01:39 So those are kind of competing forces, right?
1:01:43 And so I like setting up a process to try to do something
1:01:51 because otherwise stasis would be bad
1:01:53 and it would just be driven by the people sitting here
1:01:57 would be then how we pick our wards
1:02:00 or we just keep them because of, you know, inertia.
1:02:05 In this case, no inertia, no movement.
1:02:08 So I like the idea of putting something in the charter
1:02:10 that would require some sort of annual process
1:02:14 or like, you know, decontennial review or process.
1:02:20 I would like to have some suggestion about,
1:02:23 you know, fidelity to kind of traditional wards
1:02:28 in the sense of North-South actually,
1:02:29 but I'm trying to find a way to put that
1:02:32 Cause I like that, but I don't know if you guys do
1:02:36 So that's different, right?
1:02:37 Or do we want to have kind of all the folks
1:02:39 South of Madison in one ward
1:02:40 and then Madison to Detroit, right?
1:02:42 Like, so you can also break it down East-West
1:02:43 if you want to, which I think would be worthy.
1:02:49 So I'd like a little bit more time
1:02:51 but I also would like all of your input
1:02:53 or the administration's input or public input
1:02:55 on kind of how they feel about it.
1:02:57 Cause I certainly know the,
1:02:58 I think the Charter Review Commission did an admiral job
1:03:00 of like giving us something, trying to depoliticize it.
1:03:04 Cause I think, and those are the two things
1:03:06 that I can certainly agree with.
1:03:08 But there is some wiggle room in the middle
1:03:09 as to how we kind of really put it forward.
1:03:16 I think we do need a process in place.
1:03:18 And I also agree with Councilman Baker
1:03:21 about the nature of our wards
1:03:23 that do run North to South.
1:03:29 represent a fairly diverse population with that layout.
1:03:34 It's historically important.
1:03:35 I think it's important the way we do our jobs.
1:03:37 I'd love to take some more time
1:03:39 to put some more thought into this.
1:03:46 I do like the vertical nature of our wards.
1:03:49 And to Councilperson Striebig's point,
1:03:53 you know, I honestly don't really even know
1:03:54 if I get more calls than the rest of the ward,
1:04:01 Ward four is unique with the Gold Coast.
1:04:05 I too like the idea of establishing a process,
1:04:08 but I don't necessarily think
1:04:10 that we have to reinvent the wheel
1:04:13 as far as the geographical layout of our wards.
1:04:19 Yeah, I think I've thought about this too
1:04:21 in terms of, well, in a couple ways.
1:04:24 One of the things that came up
1:04:26 in the Charter View Commission meetings,
1:04:30 which I was able to attend more of, I think,
1:04:32 than a lot of council members,
1:04:34 just by nature of being president,
1:04:36 not having to be at other committees
1:04:38 all the time when they met.
1:04:39 But there was discussion too about,
1:04:45 not just the number of calls
1:04:47 or feel like their constituents aren't represented.
1:04:50 I don't know that that's necessarily the case,
1:04:52 but more that it's good to have a,
1:04:57 you know, the charter being our,
1:04:59 with the number of these being our,
1:05:01 essentially constitution of setting up a best practice
1:05:05 before there's a problematic council.
1:05:07 And so sort of the same thing
1:05:08 when we were talking about the appointment process.
1:05:11 You know, I don't think that anyone
1:05:13 on this body currently would think of anything
1:05:18 in terms of redistricting other than the best,
1:05:23 best thing for our residents and have that in mind.
1:05:27 But we see it play out in other communities
1:05:31 and at the state level and federal level
1:05:35 And so it's good to have things established,
1:05:39 We've seen norms be broken a lot
1:05:44 or more, however long it feels like interminable.
1:05:47 The other part is that we also talked about,
1:05:49 the Charter View Commission also talked about,
1:05:52 an example was when we had the ARPA funds
1:05:56 and each council member had a,
1:06:00 had a equal portion of those funds
1:06:09 the word for residents would have a lower percentage
1:06:17 if each council member were to,
1:06:19 you know, use their funds for their word only.
1:06:22 That's not exactly how any of it worked out,
1:06:24 but just as an example of thinking about,
1:06:29 you know, equity and fairness and how we're doing this.
1:06:32 So I do think the North-South does provide,
1:06:35 just on that point, separate point,
1:06:41 what the Charter View Commission recommended
1:06:43 in terms of the best practices
1:06:44 of being contiguous, compact territory,
1:06:47 natural boundaries, street lines.
1:06:48 The ways ours are currently drawn,
1:06:56 So, you know, I think following that.
1:06:59 The half street thing always got me, right?
1:07:01 Where like, well, I'm on Woodward.
1:07:04 Well, which side of Woodward?
1:07:05 Yeah, Bell Avenue is always the same.
1:07:08 And as an at-large council member,
1:07:10 it's like taking me even longer to learn them
1:07:11 because they're all my constituents.
1:07:13 So I don't know, you live in Lakewood?
1:07:15 So sometimes they struggle with that,
1:07:17 but they're really pretty simple.
1:07:20 So the process is laid out here,
1:07:23 in my opinion, would probably lead to,
1:07:25 if anything, moving to both sides of the street
1:07:31 One of the other elements of this
1:07:35 is whether or not Planning Commission
1:07:39 Part of the reason that I had suggested
1:07:41 Planning Commission to the Charter View Commission
1:07:43 when they were thinking about a different body
1:07:47 than us drawing them was that they'd be accustomed
1:07:51 to looking at natural boundaries and street design.
1:07:55 However, I do recognize that the Planning Commission
1:07:57 is not necessarily the most,
1:08:02 you know, it's a smaller body
1:08:04 and maybe not the most representative.
1:08:06 So it could also go to Citizens Advisory Commission
1:08:10 or there could be other ways to look at that too.
1:08:14 It could be a convened group
1:08:17 that happens, you know, that we appoint
1:08:21 and the mayor appoints and they draw them.
1:08:23 So there could be other ways to look at that too.
1:08:28 I guess I'll largely agree with what's been said before
1:08:33 and maybe we work on this further
1:08:36 or a future committee session.
1:08:40 I also support the North to South.
1:08:42 I think there's huge strengths to that.
1:08:43 I saw recently a 100-year-old ward map of Lakewood
1:08:48 that also was North to South.
1:08:51 that I think is valuable to retain.
1:08:53 Currently the process, I don't have an, well,
1:08:57 to the Planning Commission being the body,
1:08:59 but the current process would be
1:09:02 that the council is compelled to implement
1:09:06 what the Planning Commission recommends
1:09:08 unless it's not contiguous, compact,
1:09:11 or bounded by natural boundaries or street lines
1:09:13 and not equal in population.
1:09:15 So you could do quadrants too.
1:09:20 And the Planning Commission is currently said,
1:09:28 so it says shall review and make, if necessary,
1:09:32 appropriate redivisions of the city in the four wards.
1:09:34 So if necessary is a, I think,
1:09:36 probably intentionally artfully not specific term,
1:09:42 but maybe to me that's where my mind goes as well
1:09:45 is how much of a population change merits this test
1:09:51 and to make sure we have a thoughtful process
1:09:55 We'll probably have continuity
1:09:57 because Lakewood's built out
1:09:58 except for some new larger apartment developments
1:10:04 in Ward 3 and Ward 2 and maybe Ward 3 again.
1:10:10 So in some ways it's probably a best practice largely
1:10:16 because we should experience fairly continuous
1:10:22 population distribution unless
1:10:25 there's a change in birth rates.
1:10:28 But anyway, thank you for the thoughtful discussion.
1:10:33 So any other comments, council members?
1:10:41 and folks can think about it,
1:10:44 potentially suggest amendments or substitute drafts
1:10:48 if there's something else you wanna see.
1:10:53 So then finally we are to the ranked choice voting one,
1:10:59 which is ordinance 21, 20, 26.
1:11:03 So like with all these other ones,
1:11:08 so when we went to put the six ordinances on,
1:11:15 they're not all necessarily exactly
1:11:18 as recommended from the Charter Review Commission
1:11:22 and that is because as we've talked
1:11:23 through some of these other ones
1:11:24 as between the Charter Review Commission's
1:11:27 initial recommendation, sometimes we had other,
1:11:31 we had conversation with them,
1:11:32 we had conversation with just like
1:11:33 the Civil Service Commission and then we found out
1:11:36 we couldn't do some of the things
1:11:37 that we thought the Civil Service Commission
1:11:40 asked us to do or suggested what we do
1:11:43 So ultimately each of these drafts
1:11:46 is intended to try to solve the six identified items
1:11:52 from the Charter Review Commission.
1:11:54 This one is the most significantly different
1:11:57 from the specific language recommended
1:12:01 by the Charter View Commission.
1:12:03 And rather than dig into all of that tonight,
1:12:07 I think we have the general question before us,
1:12:12 so all of this was also being looked at
1:12:16 prior to the passage of Senate Bill 63.
1:12:20 So that has now passed the House.
1:12:25 As the Charter View was working through it,
1:12:27 they didn't know whether it would pass or not.
1:12:31 We didn't know when we first,
1:12:33 when we talked about this initially
1:12:35 or again in that July meeting
1:12:38 and we had some conversation with the Law Department
1:12:41 on the floor that night about whether the languages
1:12:45 proposed to the Charter View Commission
1:12:46 wanted to give voters options,
1:12:50 so or wanted to give council the option
1:12:53 of adopting ranked choice voting
1:12:56 based on a charter amendment that the voters could vote on
1:13:00 and say, okay, council can have this option,
1:13:02 but then we're as concerned that with SB 63
1:13:05 that that wouldn't work as well
1:13:08 and that would be more risky.
1:13:09 So the language they submitted is another alternative.
1:13:14 We also have a draft from the Law Department
1:13:18 that's more of the language
1:13:20 which is what the Charter View Commission suggested.
1:13:23 So what I would suggest is one,
1:13:27 we wanna be thinking about how council members feel
1:13:31 about ranked choice voting generally.
1:13:34 Is this something that we want to pursue in some manner?
1:13:42 my goal with bringing this forward
1:13:44 is essentially to honor Charter View Commission
1:13:49 The ground has been shifting under our feet.
1:13:52 So what the best way to look at this is,
1:13:57 So wanted to bring it to committee
1:13:59 and have us all start thinking about it
1:14:01 and work with the Law Department
1:14:04 on what, if any solution we wanna submit to voters.
1:14:10 And I, you know, high level, just a couple of comments.
1:14:15 I think ranked choice voting is good.
1:14:20 I do also think that our, you know,
1:14:22 fidelity to the budget of the city
1:14:24 and kind of making sure that we don't put ourselves
1:14:26 in a litigation risk is also good.
1:14:29 So you have competing goods, right?
1:14:33 this discussion is ripe for us to have
1:14:37 because I, and I just, it makes me so upset
1:14:41 that, you know, we say we're a home rule state,
1:14:46 the legislator doesn't like something
1:14:48 or, you know, the kind of power structure,
1:14:50 they try to take away your home rule power.
1:14:53 from a kind of autonomy standpoint.
1:14:55 This is a municipal election.
1:14:56 We're not changing the way, you know,
1:14:58 state reps are elected or whatever.
1:15:02 So we should have the freedom to do that.
1:15:06 and this is, you know, looking at the draft.
1:15:08 So if you look at the draft,
1:15:09 the charter review commission,
1:15:10 and there was some language in the report
1:15:11 and it was clear that there was some give and take
1:15:14 among charter review members
1:15:15 about kind of what would be the best.
1:15:16 I think there were a couple of folks
1:15:17 on charter review that were very in favor
1:15:20 I think there were a couple of people
1:15:21 that honestly were against it,
1:15:23 but didn't see the utility of it.
1:15:24 They thought it was a little risky.
1:15:26 And so they basically settled on this compromise,
1:15:30 which is council can basically,
1:15:33 as long as there's adequate time before the election,
1:15:34 either say, do plurality voting,
1:15:35 which is what we've always done, right?
1:15:38 It's what Lakewood has typically done.
1:15:40 There's primaries, you know, how we've always done it.
1:15:44 And then, but by ordinance council can also set it
1:15:47 as a ranked choice voting election.
1:15:53 I read this house bill or whatever,
1:15:55 that's a Senate bill that's currently
1:15:58 sitting on the governor's desk, that's correct, right?
1:16:01 And it says, and this is where I think the risk is,
1:16:04 and I'm interested in law department's analysis on this.
1:16:08 It says, I believe by like,
1:16:10 by ordinance or by resolution,
1:16:12 but it doesn't necessarily say by charter.
1:16:17 That's accurate, Vice President.
1:16:26 there's a, you know, they amend this
1:16:30 Like, so that you kind of like leave your chin out there,
1:16:35 you know, for state legislators to hit it
1:16:41 and take away our local government funds, right?
1:16:44 That every other municipality is otherwise entitled to.
1:16:48 So that's where I'm having some consternation,
1:16:50 is that, and is that right?
1:16:58 I'd rather have interest groups
1:17:01 that are interested in this pay those litigation costs
1:17:05 than the taxpayers of Lakewood would be my sense there.
1:17:12 Because I do think that ranked choice voting
1:17:15 is the best way to get common sense candidates elected.
1:17:24 It encourages people to get involved
1:17:26 that maybe haven't been involved in the past.
1:17:29 And there's a lot of really good empirical data
1:17:35 But lawsuits are expensive.
1:17:37 And so that's where I'm having,
1:17:38 I'm just expressing for my colleagues, right?
1:17:40 What my concerns are and kind of where I'm at on this.
1:17:44 And does the governor even sign this, right?
1:17:47 I think he will, but I don't know.
1:17:49 He surprised me in the past
1:17:52 in both good ways and bad ways.
1:17:54 So those are my comments about it.
1:17:55 I don't know if the law department
1:17:56 has any other comments about it.
1:18:01 We can, thank you through the chair.
1:18:05 We can certainly speak to the risk of those funds
1:18:09 along the lines that the vice president was speaking.
1:18:14 And I'm glad to do so now on a hypothetical basis
1:18:17 because we don't know what charter language
1:18:20 is before you that you're considering.
1:18:23 Is it that recommended by the commission
1:18:26 or is it something separate as recommended
1:18:28 by the council itself or a sponsoring individual?
1:18:36 regardless of what version you're considering
1:18:40 if you want me to speak further
1:18:41 to the risk of the local government funds
1:18:44 because we have looked at it thoroughly.
1:18:48 And I'll share that with you right now.
1:18:57 of not having the reference to the word charter
1:19:03 And of course the amendment by the general assembly
1:19:08 is a major risk as the vice president notes.
1:19:11 But you look at analogous cases
1:19:14 because there's nothing directly on point.
1:19:16 But one analogous case is the Supreme Court 2022 case
1:19:21 of Newburgh Heights dealing with the revenue
1:19:26 derived from speed cameras for a municipality.
1:19:32 Director Vargo, and this is the only reason
1:19:34 I'm asking this is whether or not you want
1:19:37 to dispense legal advice to potential litigation
1:19:45 I've considered that thoroughly,
1:19:47 spoke with Ms. Swallow and very comfortable
1:19:50 with what we're gonna lay out.
1:19:54 The risk is whether we accept the risk,
1:19:58 If you look at the analogous case
1:20:01 and there's no secret to this case,
1:20:04 it's been cited by the legislative authority
1:20:06 that also rendered an opinion regarding rank choice voting.
1:20:12 But in that case, the Supreme Court of Ohio
1:20:15 said two things that were critical.
1:20:17 Number one, that the general assembly
1:20:19 has the power of the purse by constitution.
1:20:23 Number two, there's no constitutional right
1:20:26 of any city to receive local government funds.
1:20:29 The Supreme Court made no distinction
1:20:31 about what type of city you are, charter or otherwise.
1:20:35 Did not reference the home rule significance
1:20:44 In addition, we start here that the state
1:20:48 We don't have them and the state is coming after them
1:20:51 and we can rely on some language that we think favors us.
1:20:57 It would be our burden, as the vice president says,
1:21:01 through legal burden and expense
1:21:02 to try to seek those funds on this glitch
1:21:11 We know how we struggled with whether we were going
1:21:14 to receive our cannabis funds.
1:21:18 Our right to the local portion of those cannabis funds
1:21:22 is set forth in the Ohio statute.
1:21:24 The statute lays it out perfectly.
1:21:27 We, as a host city to a dispensary,
1:21:29 we're entitled to 36% of the excise tax
1:21:33 of the state excise tax for the dispensaries.
1:21:37 And yet, the General Assembly did not care
1:21:40 that we were a charter city or not.
1:21:42 We were at risk and there was a lot of talk
1:21:45 as to whether they were gonna withhold those funds.
1:21:53 Is anybody here comfortable that the General Assembly
1:21:56 would give up the funds to us
1:21:59 because we happen to be a charter city
1:22:01 when there's no reference to the Supreme Court of that?
1:22:06 And of course, Senate Bill 63 doesn't say
1:22:09 if you want to enact rank choice voting,
1:22:14 you have to do it by charter.
1:22:16 Otherwise, we're gonna keep your funds.
1:22:20 You have to assess whether it's a sound judgment
1:22:22 to accept the legal risk of those funds
1:22:26 when that General Assembly,
1:22:27 and we know everything that they said about the cannabis,
1:22:30 we know what they did with speed cameras,
1:22:32 making no distinction as to whether
1:22:34 you're a charter city or otherwise,
1:22:36 do we accept the risk of $2.6 million
1:22:39 of local government funds to be withheld?
1:22:43 Director Verger, I'm gonna pause you there
1:22:44 just because we're almost out of time.
1:22:46 I do just wanna also note that the risk is one element,
1:22:51 the benefit of rank choice voting is another,
1:22:56 and then the specific legislation, which version,
1:23:03 the Charter Review Commission suggested
1:23:06 that it had the giving counsel the option,
1:23:10 and then the version that's before us
1:23:14 that submitted is different than that,
1:23:16 and the reason for that is because
1:23:18 based on a previous conversation like this,
1:23:21 we were concerned that having that option
1:23:25 took away that loophole of the charter.
1:23:27 This version includes a severability clause
1:23:31 that says if anything is held to be unconstitutional
1:23:35 may result in the loss of state funding per state law,
1:23:37 such provision shall become null and void.
1:23:39 So this is a continued conversation,
1:23:42 we're not gonna get through this all tonight,
1:23:43 but I do wanna take a moment
1:23:45 just because I know we have some folks here,
1:23:48 who are on the Charter Review Commission,
1:23:52 if folks had wanted to give public comment
1:23:56 I wanted to create a little bit of time
1:24:04 Push the button and so they can hear you on the recording.
1:24:08 Should turn green, there you go.
1:24:10 those of you that I don't know, nice to meet you.
1:24:13 I'm Jim Woolley, I'm a long-time Lakewood resident,
1:24:15 I'm a long-time lawyer, but not a very good one,
1:24:19 but I've been at it for a while.
1:24:21 I also have served as a judge here in this town.
1:24:25 And this discussion over rank choice voting
1:24:30 and been part of on the Charter Review Commission
1:24:32 is, it's a very important discussion,
1:24:36 I wanted to bring something to the attention
1:24:39 of you folks here tonight that I think is,
1:24:43 hopefully it's not a big deal,
1:24:44 but it's a potential issue or problem.
1:24:45 I read in the Lakewood Observer quotes,
1:24:49 articles written from this council
1:24:51 saying that the Charter Commission
1:24:53 had recommended rank choice voting, and we didn't.
1:24:58 We recommended something very specific
1:25:00 and something very different.
1:25:02 And I don't see any of that being qualified
1:25:06 So as we go forward on something this controversial,
1:25:08 which may have us all in court one day
1:25:11 and arguing about what this is,
1:25:13 I think it's probably important
1:25:15 that we be pretty careful about
1:25:17 when we talk publicly about these things,
1:25:20 because we didn't recommend rank choice voting.
1:25:22 We recommend, we wrote in our report
1:25:25 about all these uncertainties
1:25:27 and why it was right to maybe pump the brakes on this
1:25:31 and not fully, in a full-throated way recommend it.
1:25:35 And then I read in the Observer
1:25:37 that it's, we recommended it.
1:25:42 So I hope that by bringing it to everybody's attention,
1:25:44 we can maybe avoid whatever sort of fallout
1:25:47 there might be from something like that going forward.
1:25:53 Yeah, and I'll just clarify,
1:25:55 on page nine of the Charter Review Commission's report,
1:25:59 it says the majority of commission members
1:26:01 are supportive of the city adopting rank choice voting
1:26:06 but given the uncertainty of the timeline
1:26:08 needed to implement this overhaul,
1:26:09 the commission decided to recommend
1:26:11 providing the city with the authority
1:26:12 but allow council the greatest flexibility possible.
1:26:14 And that's what we discussed at the July meeting
1:26:17 and had some preliminary recommendations,
1:26:21 conversation with the law department
1:26:22 that doing it directly with the voters in the charter
1:26:28 reduced the risk, but there's still risk.
1:26:35 if that's not specific enough to say recommended,
1:26:38 the majority of commission members
1:26:40 are supportive of the city adopting rank choice voting,
1:26:42 my intent was simply to express that,
1:26:46 to address the recommendations
1:26:48 from the Charter Review Commission
1:26:49 and make sure that we had something to look at
1:26:52 So if that clarifies, Dean, come on up.
1:26:59 Push, it should be green, push it so it's green.
1:27:01 Oh no, I lost five seconds.
1:27:04 Council, Madam Mayor, thank you
1:27:08 for taking these issues so seriously.
1:27:10 Thank you for giving us a city well run enough
1:27:12 that we had to look for problems
1:27:13 on the Charter Review Commission.
1:27:14 I don't think we found any major ones,
1:27:16 but we did come up with several recommendations
1:27:19 On the issue of rank choice voting,
1:27:21 I actually, and people will be surprised to hear this,
1:27:24 I do share many of the concerns Councilman Baker raised.
1:27:28 The legal risk environment has changed significantly
1:27:31 since we made the recommendation we made
1:27:34 which ultimately was to give council the power to decide.
1:27:37 I described it often as a trap door clause, right?
1:27:41 Lakewood has a trap door to escape
1:27:46 But I'm really here to make one simple ask of the city,
1:27:50 which is that I hope that the law department's assessment
1:27:54 of this issue can be made public
1:27:55 so we can have a fulsome public discussion of it
1:27:58 if it is to end up on the ballot.
1:28:00 Otherwise, I think we're setting ourselves up
1:28:02 for another election cycle of rumor mongering
1:28:04 and political backbiting, which none of us want,
1:28:06 and which will only leave us more divided
1:28:07 and weaker coming out of it.
1:28:09 This is important enough, I think,
1:28:11 and citizens are already hearing competing legal analysis
1:28:15 So it's important that the city's position be made clear
1:28:18 but also debatable so that they can make
1:28:20 an informed decision in November
1:28:22 if they are asked to make such a decision.
1:28:24 On the litigation front, again,
1:28:27 I agree with much of what Councilman Baker said.
1:28:29 I will raise, though, that as a Lakewood taxpayer,
1:28:33 I think we have to recognize that eventually
1:28:36 we're going to have to decide
1:28:38 at what point we signal to voters
1:28:40 that we are willing to stand up and speak for what we want
1:28:43 to an unearned super majority in Columbus.
1:28:46 I don't think Lakewood voters always want us
1:28:48 to be so meek and to acquiesce proactively
1:28:56 If we don't signal to people
1:28:57 that we're willing to fight for home rule,
1:28:58 that we're willing to fight for our right
1:29:00 to live in a community that reflects our values,
1:29:02 that we're willing to fight for the right
1:29:03 to live in a community where our judgment
1:29:05 about how we should be governed matters,
1:29:08 then voters will lose faith
1:29:10 in the ability of their democracy
1:29:13 And so, you know, this is a bit abstract
1:29:17 in the face of nuts and bolts decisions
1:29:19 about the charter amendment process, state budgets,
1:29:23 I don't think that we should write off
1:29:25 as litigation risk the potential value
1:29:29 of signaling to people like,
1:29:30 hey, we are going to fight for things
1:29:34 and that we're not going to accept
1:29:37 authoritarian actions out of a government
1:29:39 which acts like it has the mandate from heaven,
1:29:42 but actually has the support
1:29:43 of about 55% of the public vote.
1:29:47 Did anyone else want to submit public comment
1:29:50 for the charter view section?
1:29:54 Sorry folks, we're finishing up Committee of the Whole
1:29:57 and then we'll get to full council.
1:30:04 You know, I'm always hesitant to speak
1:30:07 I'm with Michelle D. Jackson
1:30:10 And I don't want us to sort of go too quickly
1:30:14 over the severability clause.
1:30:16 What Dean just said is so pertinent
1:30:18 for progressive communities in this environment
1:30:21 in the United States of America
1:30:22 that we do not acquiesce in advance.
1:30:25 we don't want you to have blue cars.
1:30:27 We don't want you to have electric cars.
1:30:29 We'll withhold your money if you buy an electric car
1:30:31 or set up electric car stations.
1:30:34 So I think that we're anxious to hear
1:30:36 what the law department has to say,
1:30:38 but it's very important that
1:30:40 we have national organizations
1:30:42 that are partnering with us.
1:30:44 We are talking about what would happen
1:30:46 We are hoping to avoid that
1:30:49 by suggesting a severability clause
1:30:51 and also perhaps extending the time
1:30:54 that you even have right now.
1:30:55 It's 2029, extended to 2030, whatever.
1:30:59 But we have to really make decisions
1:31:01 based on, like Dean says, our values.
1:31:04 Don't get hung up on the what if, what if.
1:31:08 What we need to do is progressive communities
1:31:10 and progressive organizations
1:31:12 to keep this country semi-democratic.
1:31:15 That's all I have to, oh, and thank God
1:31:17 that back when my ancestors were coming along
1:31:20 that they did not acquiesce
1:31:21 and I'd still be picking cotton.
1:31:27 Anyone else who wanted to speak on the charter elements
1:31:30 before we wrap up Committee of the Whole?
1:31:37 Council members, do some reflection.
1:31:39 We'll work with the law department.
1:31:45 First of all, thank you for the work
1:31:48 I hear what you said a number of times.
1:31:50 The intent is to give council an option
1:31:53 and to also respond as a body
1:31:54 to the hard work of the Charter Review Commission.
1:31:57 And I see a number of them out here today.
1:31:59 Dean, you know I respect your work.
1:32:00 Mr. Willey, I respect your work.
1:32:03 but thank you for your thoughtfulness.
1:32:06 On this one, I want to add to a question
1:32:13 There's a section in here which would say
1:32:15 council authority, the council shall by ordinance
1:32:18 establish ballot, form, process,
1:32:22 and the third thing, procedure for filling vacancies.
1:32:24 Question would be, I'm looking at the statute,
1:32:26 the state statute that's on the governor's desk.
1:32:30 It says if the secretary of state
1:32:31 determines the county or municipal corporation
1:32:32 has by resolution or ordinance approved
1:32:34 the use of rank choice voting, et cetera.
1:32:36 So the question would be would the secretary of state
1:32:39 who has unfortunately not really been
1:32:41 all that impartial of a juror these days,
1:32:47 would they have discretion to say that
1:32:49 one sub-element of the charter defined process
1:32:53 that we're considering here?
1:32:55 Would that be enough to trigger their point or not?
1:32:57 So that's just a question for now.
1:32:59 I also note that the governor's,
1:33:02 they've got a super majority fortunately.
1:33:05 I looked at 60% and they passed this ordinance by,
1:33:11 the state has passed by more than 60%
1:33:15 in both chambers what they proposed.
1:33:17 So I'll say for the record,
1:33:18 it's very obnoxious to put it mildly
1:33:22 that the state would take away the community's choice.
1:33:25 I think it's a, now it's a good question to me
1:33:29 whether the community wants this or not.
1:33:32 I think it would be meritorious to have a public discussion
1:33:36 in the library, in the neighborhoods
1:33:39 but it certainly is a thoughtful recommendation
1:33:44 and what this proposes to do is truncate all of that
1:33:48 and we're certainly capable and likely to self-governance
1:33:51 but to the point of somebody who made public comment,
1:33:55 I mean, it's essentially the A-bomb of penalties
1:34:00 to threaten all, not a portion,
1:34:04 but all local government funds.
1:34:05 So it could be less forceful,
1:34:10 but that's just an observation for the moment.
1:34:17 All right, so we will pause there.
1:34:18 We're gonna no further business
1:34:21 before community of the whole,
1:34:22 without objection, community of the whole is adjourned.
1:34:25 We'll just pause for just a few minutes to reset
1:34:27 and then we'll start full council.