Written by the reviewer from the ASR + docket; [verbatim-ASR] = quoted machine transcript; [paraphrase] = reviewer's wording, not a quote.
0:00 Let's try that again.
0:01 Today is Monday, March 9th, and I'm
0:03 going to call to order the Public Safety Committee meeting.
0:08 All members are present.
0:10 And today we have four items on the agenda today.
0:15 And the first is approval of the October 20th, 2025 Public
0:19 Safety Committee meeting.
0:23 A motion to approve the minutes.
0:25 Do we have a second?
0:31 That motion carries.
0:33 The second item on the agenda is a communication
0:36 from Fire Chief Fairbanks regarding the Neighbor
0:40 This presentation was completed at the September 15th, 2025
0:43 Public Safety Committee meeting.
0:46 I am going to go ahead and make a motion
0:48 to receive and file this communication.
0:54 And that motion carries.
0:57 So we're going to come to the last items on our agenda,
0:59 which is the communication from Council Member Striebig
1:02 reintroducing an ordinance to amend Chapter 505
1:06 to create regulations regarding a Trap, Neuter,
1:09 and Return program in Ordinance 03-2026.
1:14 Today we have with us members of the SWAB and CLAWS,
1:19 along with Officer Crumley.
1:21 I'm not sure if our members would like to introduce
1:29 I'm Chair of LAW SWAB.
1:33 I'm Emily Christacue.
1:34 I am the Secretary of the SWAB as well as the President
1:41 I'm the Community Cats Director for CLAWS,
1:44 which is the Citizens Committee for Lakewoods, Animals,
1:48 Just we have it on the record.
1:51 And then we also do have other members
1:53 that are present in the audience here.
1:55 As support and backup for the group.
1:57 So thank you for being here.
1:59 So the ordinance in front of us today
2:02 has undergone a number of changes
2:03 and has been carefully considered.
2:06 And I think the goal for today
2:07 should be to deliberate if this ordinance will
2:09 do what it's intended.
2:12 And so I'm going to first make a motion
2:15 to insert some additional language.
2:17 And then we could talk about the ordinance
2:21 This was based on the Ordinance 03-2026
2:24 This was based on the conversations
2:26 with some of the SWAB and CLAWS members.
2:29 So I want to make a motion to insert in Section 9B4.
2:44 And I'll wait for the clerks to pull that up.
3:20 So after 24 consecutive hours, yes,
3:30 so it's already in there.
3:31 So I am going to make a motion
3:34 that we insert in Section 9B4 after 24 consecutive hours,
3:41 comma, without providing for the CATS
3:44 needs pursuant to revise code Section 9959.131D, period.
3:57 OK, we have the motion in the second.
4:01 We have to discuss first, sorry.
4:06 So first, we'll go pull that back.
4:12 Do we have any discussion on that?
4:18 OK, all those in favor?
4:21 All right, and that motion passes.
4:23 OK, so now we have an updated ordinance in front of us
4:27 that adds that additional language.
4:30 And I think it is a good thing
4:33 because it does provide for the intent of the trapping
4:40 that, and in the sense of trapping,
4:43 I'll refer to Claas and LaSueb a little bit
4:46 after committee members to explain
4:48 a little bit more in detail.
4:50 But basically making sure that this
4:53 is clear that the CAT may be trapped for longer
4:58 than 24 consecutive hours, and that as long
5:03 as they're being cared for, food, water,
5:05 that that would be OK.
5:07 And that's for the intent of the TNR.
5:10 So I don't know if any other committee members have
5:14 any discussion points or questions.
5:22 I would just want to say thank you for catching that.
5:24 The attention to detail from this group is unbelievable.
5:30 I can't imagine anybody paying more attention
5:34 to every word and every comma that is and is not
5:40 So I would just like to, at this time,
5:43 extend my thanks to LaSueb and Claas and attorney Dana
5:49 and everybody else really that's provided a lot of input
5:54 here, including animal control officer Crumley
5:57 and the law department and Carol Lasher.
6:02 And I mean, I could just I really I actually
6:05 I have a list of people that I could probably
6:07 save for the next minute.
6:09 But you all know who you are.
6:11 So thank you very much for the attention to detail
6:13 to make sure that we get this right.
6:15 And also with the understanding that as we
6:18 get into this, if it's not right,
6:20 we can go back and fix it again, right?
6:22 I mean, it's not we're not pouring the cement.
6:24 We're writing the documents.
6:28 And I'd just like to echo that sentiment.
6:32 As someone who's new to this, it's certainly not lost to me
6:35 that you folks have been working on this issue
6:37 for months and months at this point.
6:40 And having done kind of a little crash course just
6:45 yesterday and today on this, I'm
6:47 realizing there's a lot of layers and nuance
6:50 to this sort of issue.
6:54 And so I really appreciate all your work
6:56 to get us to this point, both my council colleagues
6:58 and the folks in the room.
7:02 Thank you to my council colleagues for that input.
7:06 I don't know if Officer Cromley or Director Vargo,
7:09 would you like to speak first?
7:11 Or do you want to hear from can we
7:12 hear from the clause and we'll swap group
7:16 Or what would you refer?
7:20 Thank you, Madam Chair.
7:22 I'll follow the experts.
7:32 I'm the chair of Law Swab.
7:35 And I want to thank every council member for helping us
7:40 along this two-year impassioned journey that we've had.
7:44 We've worked closely with CLAWS.
7:47 CLAWS has taken the lead in finding attorney Dena Perino.
7:55 And they've taken the efforts to find groups
8:00 that do large-scale TNR programs.
8:06 CLAWS is a 501C3 that works with the Lakewood Animal
8:10 Shelter, as we know.
8:12 Having the lawyer and having the large group people,
8:17 that's a difference that made the difference.
8:19 And their efforts should always be thanked for.
8:24 The members of Law Swab have voted,
8:26 and we recommend the passage of this ordinance, as is.
8:30 We also want the right to come back and perhaps
8:34 suggest some other differences.
8:39 Lakewood loves their animals.
8:41 We found that out in the Spay and Neuter program.
8:45 We are a city that welcomes everyone.
8:49 However, when it comes to community cats,
8:51 we do have some problems, some major ones.
8:55 Gary's first year here, and talk about entering by fire,
9:01 Davis Court brought in approximately 40 cats
9:05 that they did not like that were community cats,
9:08 and he had to euthanize them in his staff.
9:12 That is not a good day at work for anyone.
9:17 Calling creates a vacuum.
9:20 It's an emptiness, other colonies start coming in,
9:24 because suddenly it's there, suddenly it's gone.
9:28 Hey, we've got like a new condo.
9:32 It's been two years.
9:34 We're in a period of cats are going to be
9:38 having kittens soon.
9:40 Davis Court is, and my best guess,
9:43 going to bring cats and kittens back to Gary.
9:46 And that is part of the job of ACO,
9:51 but if it's preventative,
9:54 we'd like to prevent some of that.
10:01 Since our ordinance is with best practices,
10:06 the evidence-based treatment of areas like Davis Court
10:12 is to go in, surround the area,
10:17 and TNR, especially that area,
10:20 the epicenter being Davis Court.
10:23 Because of that, we would like to ask for
10:27 a grant clause who has the infrastructure
10:31 to do a large program like this.
10:33 They have the connections, they have the 501C3,
10:37 so the city doesn't have liabilities
10:40 as far as the, you know, using TNR.
10:48 And it's something that I would like council to consider.
10:56 Without starting that, Gary is going to have
10:59 another large group of cats from that specific area.
11:04 And other areas are complaining to me.
11:09 People are calling, saying,
11:10 are they gonna come to our neighborhood?
11:12 I'm like, well, you guys can start a program
11:14 as soon as this is passed.
11:16 But given we have an epicenter of need,
11:19 I do recommend, and Laszlob recommends a grant
11:24 to clause of $20,000.
11:28 And I wanna thank everyone on council
11:31 for being so supportive of our efforts.
11:43 Hi everyone, Emily Christacue here.
11:45 As I mentioned, I've been the secretary
11:48 of the swab for years, and six years now,
11:53 We've been working on this for two now,
11:55 and I'm just so excited to see.
11:57 This version I think is the best it's been.
12:00 I've lost track of the number of times
12:02 I've compared these back and forth.
12:05 And I'm just very grateful that everybody's contributed
12:07 to this point, and I think it looks fantastic.
12:11 I also forgot to put my clause cap on.
12:14 I'm the president of clause now,
12:16 and big props to Kara Lasher,
12:19 who was previously in this position,
12:22 and she got us to a great starting point.
12:24 So I'm really grateful for the work she's done.
12:27 And Erin McDonald, who was the former Laszlob chair.
12:31 So a lot of people, as you said, Cindy,
12:33 that we should recognize for all the work
12:35 that has happened to this point.
12:37 So maybe Megan could kind of clarify
12:42 a little bit about what we recommended to be added
12:45 as far as the timeframe with the 24 hours in a trap.
12:48 She's our resident, she and our expert.
12:53 Thank you, council.
12:55 And thank you everybody who is working on this
12:57 and has worked on this.
12:59 Again, I'm Megan Gallada,
13:00 the community cats director for CCLAS Clause.
13:06 In terms of that little amendment that was made,
13:10 that came directly from Dana Panella, our attorney,
13:14 and she is with Holland and Mearden.
13:17 They are an animal welfare firm
13:20 that specializes in animal welfare in the state of Ohio.
13:24 And we had talked about that 24 consecutive hours
13:29 that actually doesn't work
13:31 because every TNR has a trapping day, a vet day,
13:37 and then a return day.
13:39 So that's three days.
13:41 And she gave us that part of the revised code
13:46 which addresses having animals in traps.
13:50 And that specifically talks about,
13:53 and we're saying without complying with that,
13:58 that provides for food and water in the trap.
14:02 It also talks about animals in traps must be kept
14:07 from being in freezing cold, extreme heat,
14:14 temperature fluctuations, things like that.
14:16 So that was at her suggestion to put in there
14:20 because otherwise no one can TNR
14:23 because you're going to have to keep a cat in a trap
14:25 longer than 24 hours
14:27 because you can't trap it, take it to the APL,
14:29 and recover it all within 24 hours.
14:32 So that's where that came from.
14:34 And that refers specifically to Ohio code.
14:38 So if anybody has any questions,
14:40 I will try to address them,
14:42 but that's where that came from,
14:43 directly from our attorney.
14:48 Yeah, I have a question regarding that.
14:51 What is considered cruelty then?
14:54 How long do you think you can just keep these
14:57 cats in a live trap
14:59 because there's not a lot of room in there?
15:00 That goes to best practices.
15:04 As so many things that we've talked about,
15:06 the Alley Cat Allies, Neighborhood Cats of New York,
15:10 they produce what are essentially two Bibles
15:13 on doing trap neuter return.
15:16 And in general, it is three days by and large.
15:19 There's a trapping day,
15:21 there's the veterinary day at the APL or pet fix,
15:24 and then there's a return day.
15:26 So return is typically 24 hours
15:29 after they've been put under anesthesia
15:33 because it takes about that amount of time
15:34 for it to work its way out of their system.
15:38 If you have a pregnant,
15:39 and I can point to the best practices
15:43 but if you have a pregnant cat,
15:45 you're very likely to keep it
15:47 a little longer for recovery.
15:48 If you have an injured cat,
15:51 you might keep it longer for recovery,
15:53 but by and large, three days.
15:55 But best practices address that question
15:58 and those durations.
16:01 And that comes back to the training
16:03 that we've talked a lot about.
16:04 Providing training on the web to guide people
16:07 and providing in-person training
16:10 so that people will know.
16:17 Dr. Vargo, go ahead.
16:18 Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.
16:21 When would the committee or council
16:23 take up the grant request?
16:25 Are you taking it up now to recommend,
16:27 or will it be part of the budgeting process?
16:30 Because we may speak to that,
16:32 but no reason to speak to it now
16:35 Yeah, no, because I know there was,
16:38 so once we discussed this,
16:39 I was gonna talk about the policy
16:41 because there was something,
16:42 there was a question in the policy
16:44 in the last line about liabilities,
16:46 so that's connected.
16:47 So we can talk a little bit about that.
16:51 I think that's something we would have
16:54 to consider potentially in the budget,
16:56 and there may be some external funding sources
16:58 that we could help them maybe
17:00 be directed towards as well,
17:01 so we could work to find some funding sources,
17:04 non-city, maybe a combination.
17:06 But I think that would have to be something
17:07 that we would have to refer,
17:10 put together a communication recommendation
17:12 and have it referred to Finance Committee.
17:17 One question I would have about the funding,
17:19 how does the city guarantee
17:22 that this is gonna be used for the TNR,
17:25 not for something else?
17:31 So I think it would be like any other grant,
17:35 you know, dollars that are distributed
17:38 to community organizations.
17:40 They would have to have mechanisms and controls
17:44 in place, budgeting, all of that stuff.
17:46 So we do have those parameters in sight,
17:50 and we would just have to make sure
17:51 that CLOS would be able to manage that.
17:53 And they are a 501C3, so they are accountable
17:56 to dollars, you know, public dollars,
18:00 so they would already have those parameters and controls.
18:11 Anything else from the administration, Officer Kremley?
18:16 Nothing here, Madam Chair, thank you.
18:20 So if there's council members,
18:22 do you have any other points of discussion?
18:28 Okay, well, with that, I think,
18:32 with no other further discussions,
18:34 with additional language,
18:37 I will make a motion to favorably refer this ordinance
18:41 back to City Council to vote on.
18:47 All right, we have a second.
18:49 All those in favor?
18:52 And that motion passes,
18:54 so we will refer this back to City Council.
18:58 And with the remaining time left in the committee,
19:04 we are going to talk a little bit about the policy,
19:08 if that's okay, Director Vargo,
19:10 the updated policy that we have.
19:12 So we have the ordinance,
19:14 and so the other mechanism
19:16 that needed to be updated was the policy.
19:19 And council members,
19:22 you should have had the email
19:23 from Assistant Director Swallow,
19:26 and I did also email that out to Klaus and LaSueb as well,
19:32 so I hope that you all have had a chance to review it.
19:35 And the clerks have pulled up the policy,
19:37 which has the red lines.
19:39 So I am going to actually,
19:42 if it's okay, turn it over to Director Vargo,
19:45 maybe you could talk us through some of these changes,
19:49 and then we can have a discussion about this.
19:52 Thank you, Madam Chair.
19:59 it's not of much significance at this point.
20:03 It's really of no legal significance
20:06 to the individuals engaging in TNR.
20:09 Originally, the legislation had compliance
20:13 with this policy, a provision in the ordinance,
20:17 at the request of the advocates
20:21 and the organizations that was taken out.
20:24 So the policy is aspirational,
20:28 internal administrative policy.
20:30 It is not tied to the ordinance.
20:32 It's not required to be complied with.
20:34 There is no legal sanction for violation of it.
20:37 So it has been neutered,
20:41 if I can throw a pun at it.
20:43 Okay, I'll continue with the neutering of the ordinance.
20:50 And just as the committee has been very responsive
20:56 to the advocates in this field,
20:59 the experts in this field,
21:00 and just as a reminder,
21:02 where we are now with this ordinance
21:05 and how it differs from the original proposed legislation,
21:10 the current ordinance that's being recommended
21:12 out of committee does not require training
21:17 to any degree for any person,
21:21 does not require registration
21:22 before engaging in TNR that was taken out,
21:26 does not require written permission of the landowner
21:31 to the extent TNR has taken place
21:33 on other private property,
21:36 does not require any reporting to the city
21:38 on numbers after it.
21:41 And again, like I said,
21:42 it does not require compliance
21:44 with the internal administrative guidelines.
21:47 So initial restrictions or guardrails
21:54 have been taken out after due deliberation
21:59 by the committee and input from the people
22:01 that should be recognized.
22:03 So this guideline will be subject to change
22:07 by the administration,
22:09 and I'm sure upon consultation and advice
22:14 of Officer Crumbly from time to time.
22:21 Council members, did you have any points
22:25 or response or questions?
22:33 Thank you, Director Vargo.
22:34 Just to make sure I'm understanding properly,
22:35 so what the ordinance we passed today,
22:38 it doesn't include these guardrails,
22:39 but they could be added down the road.
22:41 Should we foresee any complications that arise?
22:46 Is that the thought process?
22:48 We can always, thank you, through the Chair,
22:50 we can always amend the ordinance in the future
22:54 if we're seeing problems.
22:57 If we want to go through this again, we can do that.
23:04 So, yeah, so if we see problems, we can do it.
23:08 But right now, this really, the city is not active.
23:13 I think part of the directives to the city
23:16 from the experienced advocates was stay out of it city.
23:21 Let these good-minded citizens act.
23:25 And this ordinance and the policy
23:27 not being tied to the ordinance
23:28 reflects an absolute approach
23:31 that the city is staying out of it.
23:33 As requested or directed.
23:39 Thank you, I appreciate that.
23:41 Thank you, Director Vargo.
23:42 So really, this policy really, I think,
23:46 serves as a guide, I would think,
23:50 for folks and people that are serious about it.
23:53 And these are sort of, you know,
23:56 this is what you should do, right?
23:58 And then here's the ordinance,
23:59 but here's sort of the guide and how, in reality,
24:04 So I think that's one way to look at it,
24:06 is that it's just a guide.
24:07 And, you know, the people that are gonna be doing this
24:11 are gonna be doing things, hopefully, you know,
24:13 they should be the correct way
24:16 in line with the ordinance,
24:17 in line with the existing laws that are already there.
24:21 And obviously, if they don't,
24:22 we've got Officer Crumley that will get them in line
24:25 and do what's needed, right?
24:27 So ladies, do you have anything?
24:31 Laws in LaSalle, anything to add to that?
24:39 I just want to thank everybody for their efforts on this.
24:44 Cindy, or Councilwoman Striving,
24:47 I really, really appreciate
24:49 your helping us get it through.
24:51 Councilmember Hamilton-Steiner,
24:54 thank you so much for guiding us as well.
24:58 And Councilmember Evans, thanks for saying yes.
25:12 Oh, no worries at all, of course.
25:14 Councilmember Bixenstein, thank you so much,
25:17 and I will remember forever.
25:20 You are Councilmember Bixenstein.
25:22 No problems at all here.
25:25 Okay, anything else?
25:29 This is a record for you all.
25:35 Everybody's shocked.
25:36 Megan wants to say something.
25:38 I just wanted to agree with what Nancy said,
25:44 and thank everyone,
25:45 and thank you both for hearing what we've said
25:48 and giving us a chance to have a permission
25:53 to have a permitted program in the city and get started.
25:58 I've already TNRed several cats in Cleveland
26:02 and one in Lakewood,
26:04 and one day at the APL,
26:07 every cat that went in was pregnant already.
26:10 So we are trying really hard to prevent pregnancy
26:14 and get this overpopulation problem under control.
26:18 I'm very happy with the ordinance
26:20 as you've all have approved it today,
26:24 and I look forward to it going to the full council
26:27 where it will hopefully get approved as well.
26:29 So thank you all for taking this on
26:32 and for the two years of taking it on.
26:37 And so I guess, final notes,
26:40 I think this shows that what we can accomplish
26:45 when we work together collaboratively,
26:47 committee members with council members,
26:52 with administration,
26:53 and just all parties really wanting the same thing,
27:00 but as coming together
27:01 and maybe speaking different languages.
27:03 We want the same thing
27:04 and we're speaking different languages,
27:05 and then it's understanding the languages
27:07 that we're each speaking,
27:08 and then we can say, oh, okay, this makes sense.
27:11 So I appreciate Officer Crumley for being here,
27:14 and I don't think I introduced you in the beginning.
27:15 I do apologize as well as Director Vargo.
27:17 I did not introduce you as well,
27:20 but I appreciate the both of you being here
27:23 and my council colleagues being here as well,
27:26 and I think we're setting a record for this group, yes.
27:31 So if there are no other, oh, Officer Crumley,
27:33 there we go, I keep saying that.
27:36 I'll make it brief.
27:37 I just wanna say it's been a pleasure
27:39 working with the groups and getting this resolved.
27:42 Same with council members.
27:46 Mayor George also talking with her was in agreement,
27:49 and let's get this done,
27:50 so it's just gonna be nice that it'll be there for them.
27:56 I just wanted to say it was nice working with them
27:58 to get this through.
27:59 Yep, absolutely, absolutely.
28:16 The SWAB members, would you like to provide
28:19 any public comment or, no?
28:47 Without any other further business,
28:50 the meeting of a public safety committee is over.